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 The Great Western Alliance

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hijjma



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PostSubject: Re: The Great Western Alliance   Sun Oct 31, 2010 2:17 am

Civa-Orchestra wrote:
((I like to point out bull shit.

As for a democracy being superior and more efficient, I'll have to say yes. Having one person control the entire government (or part of the government in your case) is idiotic. Maybe, you are right. After all, the majority of the countries in the real world aren't democracies. Oh wait, they are. I wonder why that is.

Of course, I can give my reasons, and you could give me yours. I'd rather not waste my time or yours. Neither of us are correct, blah blah.

Nice to know that you will release a full explanation of your country. Seeing that you haven't gotten around to it yet, really shows your priorities. Then again, people do have real lives.))

[OCC] I think that Civa you went way over the top with that and I will make no other comments at this time[OCC]
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Oscalantine

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PostSubject: Re: The Great Western Alliance   Sun Oct 31, 2010 2:27 am

[[BEGINNING OF OOC]]

Actually… Civa, you should take not that Democracy is THE MOST INEFFICIENT since anarchy. Democracy is anti-corruption, but that doesn’t mean that it is efficient. In some ways a corrupt, dictatorial government processes things a lot quicker than democratic government.

The reason why Democracy is hailed as the greatest form of government up until now is because human mind seeks nothing but personal gains (Legalist point of view, of course.). They want to put their gain in front of others, and for the sake of their gain, they will abandon group’s gain. And while some humans are capable of being more than that, democracy is set with this assumption in mind that humans are innately incapable of self-sacrifice for the greater good of the people. In places where that assumption wasn’t established… like governments in Asia up to the colonial era… there were monarchy and dictatorships set, because people believed that their divine leader was capable of overcome that selfish goals of humans, and that their scholar gentry were educated enough to hold country’s gain higher than their personal pleasures. Of course, these forms of government did not work out, and hence whey Democracy is held as “THE BEST DAMN THING IN EXISTANCE” category.

However, Democracy is completely inefficient. You have to get consensus on everyone within the country before the action may pass. Majority must always exist, in one way or another, for anything to be done. Democracy itself means “rule of many,” and in a government with many heads, you expect a lot of disputes. That is both the beauty and curse of Democracy, as people debating over their selfish goals will prevent single-man gain and hence corruption, but the process is slow and arguably inefficient.

That’s why direct democracy, where the entirely citizenry participates in an open election, is utilized only in small nations, with held expectation that people are going to vote. That’s why U.S. and many other democratic countries have representative democracy. They elect representative to vote for their problems. It works in larger and more complex countries. However, what democratic countries don’t count on is their direct contradiction with free market.

If you are going to say that capitalism supports democracy, I will seriously have to reevaluate your intelligence level, because it doesn’t. Democracy is “One person, One vote,” while Capitalism is “One dollar (monetary credit), One vote.” Capitalism doesn’t give equal representation, while Democracy does. Therefore, when you have free market economy mixed with democratic government, you get a situation of oligarchy, where only the rich and powerful can take the seat as the representative in the election. You get a situation where people are voting in what seems to be a free election, but behind the curtain, you have business deals, where person buys advertisements and ultimately votes.

Therefore, only true representative Democracy is in Socialistic countries. Socialism where taxing rating is off the charts… yes, the very country that the Americans call “Socialists…” and scorn. That is the only place for rep. Democracy.

Even with oligarchal system of democracy, democracy is still inefficient. You have these things called parties, where each party tries to dominate the seat using their political influence. You can be sure that they are just fighting each other, and not for the sake of the people. Of course, this party system is better than one-party system in terms of corruption, but the process is woefully slowed down… filibuster, anyone?

The point is that you are completely not logical in your claim that Democracy is efficient. It is THE MOST inefficient system since anarchy. However, Democracy is THE ONLY SYSTEM WHICH CONSIDERS HUMAN SELFISHNESS. If you can have a strong, moralistic leader, dictatorship isn’t bad… but would you expect a dime in the dozen leaders that is self-sacrificing? Or would you forge your own destiny with self-serving leaders? That’s why democracy is EFFECTIVE. But Democracy is by no means efficient.

That said… given that the dictatorships in the countries of ours are well-run, you can always have efficient and effective government. I, meanwhile, have incorporated human interest in form of cash. Everyone gets money, everyone is happy. They don’t do corrupt things because doing corrupt things makes them lose money. That’s how I role. Now, civa, your democracy can also be effective and efficient, too, if you manage to destroy the party system that prevents politicians from abusing their representation.

Point is… don’t overrate Democracy, and don’t underrate everything else. We all have our pros and cons, so please by no means say anything that states your lack of understanding. It is rather… disturbing.


[[END OF OOC]]

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Management Head of Technology - Head Tony Max Kiwiki
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Military Manager of Airspace - [vacant]
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Civa-Orchestra

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PostSubject: Re: The Great Western Alliance   Sun Oct 31, 2010 11:56 am

If you read my last OOC post, you'd find that I mentioned that I am not correct. I felt like creating a patriotic (ignorant) nation with deep democratic values. Of course, this isn't how I feel in real life. Though I would prefer it over absolutism. If the "leader" sucks, so to speak, you have the peace of mind that you only have to put up with it for a few more years, and then you can vote for a new one. Only real problem in the U.S.A is the electoral college, which should be abolished, in my opinion.

As for a dictatorship, you have to wait a little longer, depending what happens, but I'm not going to get into that.

I'd like to point out that the views in the IC, are just that. They are not my true views, yet I am forced to defend myself against people who think that I'm an ignorant American.

Whatever. Laissez-faire, no government control, etc. I'd rather have the economy take its course than being the one responsible for it, but that's just me.

Everyone has different opinions, it is basically what makes you human. There is no lack of understanding in this ordeal.

Also, if you feel the need to write a wall of text for something as trivial as this, go ahead. I have no idea why you'd want to though.
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Holy Edesu SocialistState
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PostSubject: Re: The Great Western Alliance   Sun Oct 31, 2010 12:03 pm

[Osc is like me. We love arguments.]

[Also, I AM an ignorant American. Razz]

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Civa-Orchestra

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PostSubject: Re: The Great Western Alliance   Sun Oct 31, 2010 12:06 pm

MFA of Edo Edi Essum wrote:
[Osc is like me. We love arguments.]

[Also, I AM an ignorant American. Razz]

((I tend to be too lazy for arguments. >.>

Oh, but I'm an ignorant American. v_~))
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hijjma



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PostSubject: Re: The Great Western Alliance   Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:22 pm

Civa-Orchestra wrote:
If you read my last OOC post, you'd find that I mentioned that I am not correct. I felt like creating a patriotic (ignorant) nation with deep democratic values. Of course, this isn't how I feel in real life. Though I would prefer it over absolutism. If the "leader" sucks, so to speak, you have the peace of mind that you only have to put up with it for a few more years, and then you can vote for a new one. Only real problem in the U.S.A is the electoral college, which should be abolished, in my opinion.

As for a dictatorship, you have to wait a little longer, depending what happens, but I'm not going to get into that.

I'd like to point out that the views in the IC, are just that. They are not my true views, yet I am forced to defend myself against people who think that I'm an ignorant American.

Whatever. Laissez-faire, no government control, etc. I'd rather have the economy take its course than being the one responsible for it, but that's just me.

Everyone has different opinions, it is basically what makes you human. There is no lack of understanding in this ordeal.

Also, if you feel the need to write a wall of text for something as trivial as this, go ahead. I have no idea why you'd want to though.
[OCC] Well Civa I think that all of us have gone down the road of being picked on and annoyed because we are americans.[OCC]
love Denny and Tony
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Rasvidi
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PostSubject: Re: The Great Western Alliance   Mon Nov 01, 2010 8:24 am

I think this discussion should move out of this thread and into the OOC forum.

I should also advise Oscalantine that ad hominem attacks on your opponent during a discussion or debate is itself considered a sign of poor intelligence, desperation and a sign that your argument is failing. Refrain from calling, implying, or inferring that someone is stupid simply because they hold a differing viewpoint; such a belief can only indicate the failings of your own intellect.

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Holy Edesu SocialistState
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PostSubject: Re: The Great Western Alliance   Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:58 am

Rasvidi wrote:
I think this discussion should move out of this thread and into the OOC forum.

I should also advise Oscalantine that ad hominem attacks on your opponent during a discussion or debate is itself considered a sign of poor intelligence, desperation and a sign that your argument is failing. Refrain from calling, implying, or inferring that someone is stupid simply because they hold a differing viewpoint; such a belief can only indicate the failings of your own intellect.
[That's what a COMMUNIST wouls say.]

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New Numair

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PostSubject: Re: The Great Western Alliance   Mon Dec 13, 2010 8:38 pm

[I was wondering can I join the Great Western Alliance, or is my nation not counted as western Tiberiam?]

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Holy Edesu SocialistState
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PostSubject: Re: The Great Western Alliance   Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:30 pm

New Numair wrote:
[I was wondering can I join the Great Western Alliance, or is my nation not counted as western Tiberiam?]
[Anyone may. I'll add your standard signatures. Welcome!]

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Holy Edesu SocialistState
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PostSubject: Re: The Great Western Alliance   Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:34 pm

[All alliances involving EEE, including the GWA, can be found within the Edesu database.]

[All nations are encouraged to join.]

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New Numair

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PostSubject: Re: The Great Western Alliance   Tue Dec 14, 2010 9:23 pm

[thank you very much EEE!!]

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Holy Edesu SocialistState
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PostSubject: Re: The Great Western Alliance   Tue Dec 14, 2010 9:37 pm

New Numair wrote:
[thank you very much EEE!!]
[My pleasure]

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