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 Army Calculations [Situation Closed]

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Holy Edesu SocialistState
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PostSubject: Army Calculations [Situation Closed]   Sun Nov 28, 2010 8:38 pm

Secretary of Culture's FINAL VERDICT

The Rule stays Status Quo. No Change to Military Size Rule will me made.






I'll move everything here. This is where it belongs.

EEE
Quote :
OK, this entire post is OOC. I know this is mostly SoC stuff, but it is directly relevant here.

First, may I join the Eastern Union? Now, to my major post.

We need a new formula for army calculations. The old one completely ignores size of government. Allow me to explain.

For the sake of parity, nation A and nation B will have equal populations and economies. A is communist with a 100% income tax. B is very capitalist with a 10% income tax. Let's say that A devotes 5% of government spending to the military, while B devotes 10%.

In the old system, B's military is double that of A's, even though A's spending is exponentially larger. 100% of A's total national spending is government spending. B is mostly privatized. It is only logical for A's military to be much more well-funded.

Allow me to offer a solution.

RPP = RP Population
MP = Military Population
GDP = Gross Domestic Product
GS = Government Spending = (.1+.009(Income tax))GDP
MSP = Military Spending Percentage
MS = Military Spending = (GS)MSP

As examples, here are EEE and Osclantine
EEE's MS = .04(2,840,512,345,617.280)1 = $113,620,493,824.69
Osc's MS = Ok, there is no way you actually have a 100% income tax. Let's say it's 20%. That's reasonable for an uber-capitalist nation.
Osc's MS = (.1+.009*20)(58,088,935,425,006.20).25 = $4,066,225,479,750.43

OK, then what about army populations? This is up to one's discretion. Let's compare our to that of the US.
Conservative estimates of total defense spending total $1 trillion. (It's a broad list of stuff.). That's 3.5 million personnel. So, a top-notch military, which we all want, spends $285,714.29 per employee. So:
MP = MS/285,714.29

EEE MP = 397,672 soldiers
Osc MP = 14,231,789 soldiers

So, by soldiers, I mean all personnel, from front-line infantry to paper-pushers to mechanics to nuclear engineers to counter-terrorism experts. One could have exponentially more personnel, but then they would have no big-budget projects, which would be stupid. I know we all love are nukes, UAVs, fighter planes, and CLASSIFIEDs.

Opinions? Also, I hope to increase military spending to 6% soon. Smile

Osc
Quote :
[[OOC]]
[[Very well, upon request and because my answer is short, I shall answer the question here.

Alright, firstly, I would like to tell EEE that government systems in Tiberiam is SORELY different from actual government systems. I have all but gave up on trying to make realistic governments to work, because no government is ever realistic and all of them will be idealistic. Any government works with me. In that instance, I would like to say that Oscalantine does have 100% tax rate... and I will explain that later. However, because my country has shifted so much to one side that my country has almost actually went full circle.

As of moment, I have no intends on switching military system. Our current system is not confusing, and the realistic system is just too overwhelming.

However, EEE, even if I made all the military spending based on government types or even adjusted the military to how you see fit, we will run into same issue of your military not being up to the scale that you wish to be in.

Because Communism does not have... well... economy... most communistic government will collapse under the pressure of the economic support that the war requires. In short, you get millions of soldiers, but good luck feeding them for a long period of time.

Okay, I have read your opinions, and I agree that while this is realistic system that you want, again, there are way too many factors involved for me to change. I would have to mold every military spending based on country's government types, and everyone will have their two cents to say... in other words, woefully load of work on my part with very little satisfaction since everyone will be arguing over what they want.

Why didn't I follow US's example, as you mentioned before? Well, dude, America has a system that works for them, but different countries have different budgets. Different government will approve different budget. So... ... ...
Another factor to contribute is that US has less than 3% of its population devoted into the military. While awesome for US, not awesome for smaller nations. So I will say this: I am not realistic because I haven't considered the plan, but it is too big and too unfair for me to do so.

For now... our system will stay. I will consider your thought taken, though, and shall see if I can change how long can people sustain an all-out war as soon as expansion rule changes. Regardless, thanks for your complaint, it has been filed under consideration, and... sorry, I just am not that good with math nor do I have free time to actually go through each country to change the military.]]



[[Oh and EEE... please do not assume that everyone loves nukes. I have UCV and superweapon... Oscalantine has not developed any nukes as of moment. We just do not have the funding to do so XDDD]]

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Last edited by Oscalantine on Sat Dec 11, 2010 7:13 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : The Case has been closed. I [SoC] has lent my verdict.)
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Holy Edesu SocialistState
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PostSubject: Re: Army Calculations [Situation Closed]   Sun Nov 28, 2010 8:41 pm

Osc, I cringed at your comment regarding food and communism.

Anyways, my system is not as complex as it looks. I only require a nation's GDP, RP Income tax, and percent of government spending devoted to the military. That's only one more variable than our current system, which requires RP population and percent of government spending devoted to the military.

Consider it.

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PostSubject: Re: Army Calculations [Situation Closed]   Sun Nov 28, 2010 9:03 pm

I think you have mistaken me.

I was saying that this system is... although more realistic than our current system, difficult to implement.

I say this because every government is different. How will we find this "percent of government spending?" It depends on government to government. Democratic countries will likely receive smaller percentage than communistic, since they need to devote to other systems, and Dictatorship can create a system of 100% of the GDP devoted to military (very much like North Korea) because they can feel like it. Where will I get this percentage?

It comes from your government type, spending habits, your personal opinion, and your national data. I have to get EVERY data that I need, give our survey to each nation to get their government type (obviously they WA categorizing does not satisfy every nation), and sit for hours on end to get a country into the game.

I would like to remind you that defense budget IS basically how much you have chosen your government will spend on defense... which is military. Sure, the system you suggest will help nations with little defensive budget to become stronger, but at what cost?



Instead, I am planning on implementing different laws... chief among them is definitely wait time after expansion. I am also planning on working on how much you can sustain an army in action. The point is that I wish to make laws simple, and they stack so that it makes nations with smaller defense budget still have a fighting chance.



Again I say this because you can, at the cost of your economy for several month (RP time), you can shift your budgets to military to bolster your strength. While I do not have specifics yet, countries like Ras, Grace, and I... because we already have large enough military... will only be able to transfer 20% more if any. You, on the other hand, can transfer more than that. I would approve to 80% defense budget if you so choose.

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CEO of Oscalantine: Executor Nathanial Nestor Kwon

Management Head of Technology - Head Tony Max Kiwiki
Management Head of Programming - Head Lesana Victoria Melcoba
Management Head of Maintenance - Head George Alexander Kim

Military Manager of Navy - Fleet Admiral Valarie Esinstall Kwon
Military Manager of Army - General Judiciary Jimmy Thomas Lee
Military Manager of Airspace - [vacant]
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PostSubject: Re: Army Calculations [Situation Closed]   Sun Nov 28, 2010 9:26 pm

Hmm, temporarily transferring government funding overwhelming to defense. That would make an interesting RP.

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PostSubject: Re: Army Calculations [Situation Closed]   Sun Nov 28, 2010 10:26 pm

MFA of Edo Edi Essum wrote:
Anyways, my system is not as complex as it looks. I only require a nation's GDP, RP Income tax, and percent of government spending devoted to the military. That's only one more variable than our current system, which requires RP population and percent of government spending devoted to the military.

Maybe the actual calculation is simple but it still takes alot of time to calculate for every nation. My vote remains, leave the system as is. It may not be perfectly realistic but it is good enough for our purposes.

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PostSubject: Re: Army Calculations [Situation Closed]   Sun Nov 28, 2010 10:28 pm

Gracealona wrote:
MFA of Edo Edi Essum wrote:
Anyways, my system is not as complex as it looks. I only require a nation's GDP, RP Income tax, and percent of government spending devoted to the military. That's only one more variable than our current system, which requires RP population and percent of government spending devoted to the military.

Maybe the actual calculation is simple but it still takes alot of time to calculate for every nation. My vote remains, leave the system as is. It may not be perfectly realistic but it is good enough for our purposes.
I would be willing to calculate them, but sure.

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Pro Deus et Communismo
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No servant can serve two masters. He will either hate one and love the other, or be devoted to one and despise the other. One cannot serve both God and mammon. (Luke 16:13)
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PostSubject: Re: Army Calculations [Situation Closed]   Sat Dec 11, 2010 7:10 am

Okay, I think this discussion is relatively over...

My final verdict as SoC... the calculation stays status quo, and I will work on revising the rules as much as I can to ensure that smaller nations can have their share as well.

EEE, you are right, and your calculation is REALLY good. But what you are suggesting is that every one of us gets as dedicated in this casual RP as DnD folks... with character customization that takes HOURS. I don't think that anyone has that much time to do so... therefore, since this IS a casual Roleplay, I will give my say that this will remain as is. Please understand...

Also, I really enjoyed your comment. Keep them coming! =D

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CEO of Oscalantine: Executor Nathanial Nestor Kwon

Management Head of Technology - Head Tony Max Kiwiki
Management Head of Programming - Head Lesana Victoria Melcoba
Management Head of Maintenance - Head George Alexander Kim

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Military Manager of Army - General Judiciary Jimmy Thomas Lee
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