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 Godmode issue from National

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Holy Edesu SocialistState
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PostSubject: Re: Godmode issue from National   Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:47 pm

[OK, I read this all yesterday. I must say that this is the most egregiously ludicrous post I have ever witnessed.

Moving an entire nation is one thing. While this notion is absurd, it is nowhere near impossible. Resources ran out, so Isis Rakael expanded into a continent which, for reasons unknown, the rest of us have never had any interest in.

However, you cannot possibly RP that this entire operation was a secret. One billion citizens? I can't fathom the number of boat rides necessary to transport that many passengers and most of this entire empire's property. Certainly our abnormal world does not have enough stealth subs and stealth planes to organize this operation.

Also, every one of us, including poor EEE, has satellites. Even though we have no interest in most of the world, we see it. Rakaelian civilization is far from hidden. Also, there is no way EEE could not have known of this. Your journey passes through our sphere of influence. Thousands of ships making incessant journeys to nowhere would peak the interest of the most apathetic of human beings.

Also, not every one of your citizens immigrated to the New World. Many remained in Hiborea; millions immigrated to Edo Edi Essum. How could a secret this important be known by a billion Rakaelians and not a single foreigner?

There is absolutely unacceptable. How can the Secretary of Culture consider this even somewhat logical? Also:

Isis Rakael, I hereby award you the honor of the #1 godmodder in the entirety of NationStates.]

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PostSubject: Re: Godmode issue from National   Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:49 pm

[Personally, I have two suggestions.

1. Isis Rakael redoes their posts so that this operation was nowhere near secretive.

2. The SoC allows all god mods. What's the worst that could happen?]

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PostSubject: Re: Godmode issue from National   Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:08 am

[EEE, could that have possibly been more obnoxious? Neutral]

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PostSubject: Godmode issue from National   Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:22 am

Rasvidi wrote:
[EEE, could that have possibly been more obnoxious? Neutral]
[No]

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PostSubject: Re: Godmode issue from National   Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:10 am

EEE... I really love your enthusiasm as... policing agent... of this region. It heartens me that you read all the posts and you are always ready to point something out to me regardless of who the target is. I honestly felt moved that you are willing to even criticize me, as I really do need to improve on my RP skills always.

However, I feel a bit alienated at your options. It is always one extreme to another... and you don't seem to give ways. Even if I made exception of Isis, I probably won't let anyone else slip... although I usually don't let ANYONE get away with breaking relatively loosely defined rules that the RP world has.

You are perfectly correct in Isis godmoding... given the reasoning you put. However, I have to correct you on some things so that things makes... more sense to you. Afterwards, judge him again and see if he is still godmoding as you speak.



Firstly I'll clear the misconception of population and resource moving. Isis has posted... long and rather defined post about how it took several decades to move such resources. It makes sense in a way that if you did so gradually, Isis would be able to get away with moving so much citizens. Heck, it doesn't even need to be stealth subs (btw, EEE, Oscalantine is the ONLY nation with stealth sub capability... please keep in mind that even Isis does not have such technology... or just isn't wanting to hide his massive fleet.) to create the diaspora as long as it is done with few ships at a time over a large span of years. Also keep in mind that there really wasn't anyone in the western part of Hiborea... and no one had any reason to make trips in the west. Oscalantine wasn't even a country (USI was there, but USI had very segregating mindset... embargoed practically everyone...), EEE's interest in expansion was mainly inland, and what is current EU was still fighting a bitter war of supremacy. (Or in Ras's case... rebellion... NX's case would be somewhere along the lines of gaining political prowess, and Grace was sort of too eastward to care about Isis's ships.) Given these historical factors, you can safely assume that Isis could be able to hide his operations of moving his resources for the first half of the years... when the majority of the settlers and resources went into the new founding.

Now we move onto more recent events. Hijima, KI, and Oscalantine is found. However, Hijima was more or less concerned with the east, KI suffered from epidemic, and there was war to be fought for EEE, Grace, Ras, and NX in North Sea Conflict. That would mean that there really wasn't enough manpower to care about few ships passing through the western channels... especially when everyone was so focused in killing each other. By the time that Oscalantine finally came to be... and at the end of North Sea Conflict... the move was complete to a sort. Isis was, during that time, rather depleted from war, which means that in the recent cases when Oscal started to prowess its navy and started to patrol the borders, Isis would have been done with the move already. Given this particular matters... the second half of the move would've been completed before anyone really grasped what was going on.

While this historical factors back Isis, there is another thing that you should know: Ocean is HUGE. Why do you think that IRL, Somalia Pirates are still able to capture ships in Red Sea, one of the narrower of the seas? Because despite its small-looking size, THE SEA IS HUGE! You can bet that even with EEE ships patrolling the seas night and day, there is ALWAYS a method for ships to get past them... unless EEE was somehow managing to bring up full alert on naval ships searching for Isis's vessels. Not to mention... in more recent times, Oscalantine was SUPER ACTIVE in trade... meaning that Isis could have EASILY disguised its ships as Oscal trade vessels and slipped past this way. Or it could've disguised itself as Hijima vessels before Hijima's fall.
Either way, the move is possible to be done silently because the sea is FREAKING HUGE, regardless of how small it looks like, and Isis's vessels can ALWAYS disguise themselves as other sea's trade ships in order to avoid suspicion. This also goes along with the fact that not many nations in the western area really likes to obstruct trade and passing civilian ships. GWA and Oscalantine relies in trade, and no one would be happy with their ships being halted for search. In other words, the search, even if there was a rumor of Isis's strange moves, wouldn't have happened since trade ships would be everywhere.

Now we move onto satellites. Believe it or not, Tiberiam is still a bit lacking in terms of space. No one is really investing into it. I mean... there is Grace and Ras being the leading innovators of space tech, but no one really care about space atm. Take Oscalantine for example... it doesn't even have military satellites, since that is done with UAVS.
Regardless of numbers of satellites... there is one thing that you are forgetting in terms of satellite: they are rather stationary. The satellite's usage usually makes them stay in one POINT of the world where they are needed. Military satellites are more proned to move around the world to take shots, but this is because there are enemies and allies all around the world. Given that Tiberiam's denizens are usually restricting themselves to Hiborea atm, no satellite... unless for some reason just happened to get some highly inefficient orders to patrol the entire globe... would search other continents than Hiborea. So... the fact that satellites finding Isis is simply.... [i]depends[i]... as in it depends on someone ACTUALLY investing their capitals to search for something that actually might not exist. And for some reason... I doubt that anyone has done this.



All in all... while this stealth moving of 1.4 billion sounds ridiculous and has hint of godmoding IRL, it is TOLERABLE and WITHIN STRETCH OF REASON in Tiberiam RP... mainly because of the unique setting that we are in (all of us are clustered in one region) and the history (we have been too busy to notice it).



Now with that said, E, I am all ears to hear what you have to say. I have given you my reason, and you can still disagree with me. I shall revise my opinion if you can refute what I have said, and I can message Isis to revise his statements. However, I must advise that you leave your extreme options as to what I should do (stop Isis or allow everyone to have future weapons? Hmmm...) and give me a more reasonable mindset to work with.







I would also like to take an opportunity to say that I am rather vexed at godmoding debates In the IC thread. This is because when the debate sparks, it becomes long and unwieldy blob OOC posts that just ruins the excitement of the RP. I would STRONGLY advise everyone to, from now on, post all complaints of ANY RP posts in SoC thread, where people can debate without needing to destroy the muse of the RPers. I know that this kind of means that some posters will have to revise the RP posts, but that is my job to handle... and my job has been rather bland lately, so I'll welcome the chore. Razz

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PostSubject: Re: Godmode issue from National   Fri Jan 14, 2011 3:06 am

I believe you are overlooking a huge, huge point and that is he didn't initially move 1.4 billion people. The colony was founded hundreds of years ago (about 300+ years ago), and grew over time. It is possible this colony started with only a handful of people and grew to the present figures on it's own. I believe that was what he was roleplaying.

This colony has had lots of time to develop. It was not shipped as is to the continent. It grew on it's own accord, almost independently from "mainland" Isis Rakael. This is more or less a transfer from Isis roleplaying the mainland to Isis roleplaying his co-existing colony, which is all that remains.

This is all perfectly legitimate, and he has to explain his return somehow.

EDIT: As for anything space-related, I believe myself and Gracealona are the only ones with stuff in space. Gracealona has an entire space station, and Rasvidi has a handful of satellites (with the ambition of landing men on the moon before anyone else).

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PostSubject: Re: Godmode issue from National   Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:08 am

Any nation, by this time in age... has satellites one way or another. Although the number would greatly differ.

I say this because a lot of nations "buy" rockets and "rent" launch locations to send their satellites in space. I have to say that Oscal probably borrows Ras's stations to launch their satellites, but satellites are all there... but I bet that Grace and Ras has the highest in number.

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PostSubject: Re: Godmode issue from National   Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:19 am

Well in other roleplay regions I've been a part of, people have had to roleplay their space development in order to have space capabilities. It was seen as a way to limit potentially annoying or frustrating moments were someone goes "Okay, I launch these rockets from my never before mentioned space platform" or "I am taking pictures with my satellites even though my nation is so backwards and poor it couldn't possibly afford to launch satellites".

I think we should roleplay with the understanding that while a nation might very well be capable of launching a satellite, it is assumed that there is no space program until that nation roleplays the development of such.

Sorry for going off-topic about this.

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PostSubject: Re: Godmode issue from National   Fri Jan 14, 2011 9:44 am

Quote :
EEE... I really love your enthusiasm as... policing agent... of this region. It heartens me that you read all the posts and you are always ready to point something out to me regardless of who the target is. I honestly felt moved that you are willing to even criticize me, as I really do need to improve on my RP skills always.
This made me laugh. A lot.

Due to the length of Rakaealian colonization and Isis's awesoemness. I withdraw my godmode complaint.

Quote :
Regardless of numbers of satellites... there is one thing that you are forgetting in terms of satellite: they are rather stationary. The satellite's usage usually makes them stay in one POINT of the world where they are needed.
I always assumed they made infinite loops around the Earth. This reality is much more efficient, where the staellites fall at an identicle rate with Earth's rotation. I like it.

Quote :
EDIT: As for anything space-related, I believe myself and Gracealona are the only ones with stuff in space. Gracealona has an entire space station, and Rasvidi has a handful of satellites (with the ambition of landing men on the moon before anyone else).
Oh, contraire, Rasvidi. EEE still has a space program. We launched quite a few satellites, all of which stay in greater Edesu airspace. We first RPed it last september, a week after I joined Tiberiam. My space program, while not ambitious, is quite existent.

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PostSubject: Re: Godmode issue from National   Fri Jan 14, 2011 9:47 am

I still say that between Rakaelian immigration, passive espionage, ordering a single Edesu vessel to follow a "trade ship," and allowing a single satellite to stray off course, EEE has learned of Isis Rakael's rebirth. EEE is quite ready to trade with Isis.

I'll RP that tonight.

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PostSubject: Re: Godmode issue from National   Fri Jan 14, 2011 10:03 am

E....

I call godmode to that. Somehow, almighty espionage powers that your nation has is a bit more godmoding than what Isis did...

Please ask Isis before you decide what to do... Hopefully this can be resolved without me adding the rules... Oh and FYI... I did indeed ask Isis very nicely in several minute chat with him. So I guess you can do the same?

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PostSubject: Re: Godmode issue from National   Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:19 pm

I don't think that's godmode, I've been intending to do the same but I haven't got around to it. City lights and such are very, very easily visible from space; the night side of Earth looks like a rather beautiful latticework of lights. Even forest fires are visible on the night side. So it would be a fairly trivial thing to spot an entire nation of cities from orbit. Additionally, if you look at google maps, the optical technology for taking rather detailed satellite views is not only available, but commercially available. The images taken by google are probably taken from low earth orbit, which is where you would stick a satellite used for such purposes.

There are even better satellite optics then what google uses, restricted to governments and the military. They can clearly make out the numbers on a car license plate from orbit. So the technology is certainly there, and even with the naked eye you can still see cities and very large vehicles (such as cargo ships) from orbit. Think of it as a powerful telescope in orbit, but instead of pointed at the stars it is pointed at the Earth. And the Earth is much closer then the stars.

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PostSubject: Re: Godmode issue from National   Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:27 pm

Saves me a ton of posts, but spoils the plans I had laid out. Such is RP.

But for the sake of all that is good and wonderful, leave me in peace and don't come looking for me in (RP) person. Neutral

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PostSubject: Re: Godmode issue from National   Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:33 pm

Night Side of Earth (annotated) - Just so you get an idea of how bright the night side is. This a truecolour image of night side (it's black and white because really the only source of light is the cities, and colour only shows up with enough lighting). The strange looking lights encircling the north pole is the Aurora Borealis (northern lights). The ring of light around the Earth is sunlight refracted by the Earth's atmosphere.

Anyways if IR doesn't want to be bothered, I will be polite and ask him before I do roleplay contact with him.

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PostSubject: Re: Godmode issue from National   Fri Jan 14, 2011 10:40 pm

Rasvidi wrote:
Anyways if IR doesn't want to be bothered, I will be polite and ask him before I do roleplay contact with him.

I believe I may quote this and stick it in my signature.

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PostSubject: Re: Godmode issue from National   Sat Jan 15, 2011 12:29 am

Isis Rakael said I get to know of its RP existence when Oscalantine leaks such information. Please give the Military Intelligence Agency an interesting tidbit, Osc.

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PostSubject: Re: Godmode issue from National   Sat Jan 15, 2011 7:44 am

Man... I thought it was really interesting RP... but since Isis gave up, there really is no reason to continue to defend this...

I'll say this, though: it is one thing to find out the source of light... another thing entirely to find which country it belongs to. You COULD get military-grade satellite to see the flag that hangs in the government buildings, but that is... something not really cost-effective. Since Tiberiam is relatively behind in space tech than RL, we have to also admit that only Rasvidi and or Gracealona has these military-grade satellite that can be specific enough... and this is just a guess. And even if they do have them, what are the odds that they want them to wander into southern portion of the world where they believe that there isn't any threat?

All I have to say is that while Isis cannot hide a country from existing, there is PLENTY of change of Isis hiding his country's identity... as in making so that the country is just another random country in the south... and not any country that any nation from Hiborea should care about. But then again, that really isn't what Isis wished, so I guess this is moot point.

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PostSubject: Re: Godmode issue from National   Sat Jan 15, 2011 6:38 pm

So my satellites are nonexistent?

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PostSubject: Re: Godmode issue from National   Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:03 pm

No... My satellites are nonexistant. Didn't you have a space program? All you need to do is to launch one, right?

So I guess it is not there yet...

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PostSubject: Re: Godmode issue from National   Sun Jan 16, 2011 10:18 am

I have RP dozens of launches. I was simply critiquing your mistake, assuming only Rasvidi and Gracealona have active satellites.

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