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Isis Rakael

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PostSubject: Re: Government Reform?   Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:55 pm

I will care and vote only if and when I deem the Chancellor position as being worthy of my attention. Thus far, it has not been so. I've not seen the Chancellor(s) actually DO anything. Perhaps it has simply been a lack of circumstances warranting their attention, but still.

Romulan, though he does go out and recruit, for which I am grateful, never posts here or on the Regional Messageboard unless he's posting his bid for re-election. That is cause for concern, at least to me. Unless he's logging on to the forum at extremely weird hours, he doesn't have a flipping clue what's going in his own region.

As for the other two, at least they RP (to an extent at any rate), but while I applaud their activity and participation, it calls into question again just exactly what the Chancellor position is doing for us. *shrug*

If we are intent on going through with elections, I would 1: ask what reason they exist at this time, 2: what they are actively doing, and 3: reduce the number to two, given Tiberiam's current population level.

I do not ask 1 and 2 out of spite or anger or annoyance, but rather as an honest request for information. Perhaps there are hidden portions of the forum where things are happen (which wouldn't surprise me as most forums have areas hidden from the general public).

For the record, I have no problem with the existence of the Chancellor position, but I'm not seeing that they are very important at this time. I don't see the point of having elections for a seemingly pointless position.

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Holy Edesu SocialistState
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PostSubject: Re: Government Reform?   Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:59 am

So I guess we don't do elections any more?

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Gracealona
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PostSubject: Re: Government Reform?   Fri Feb 18, 2011 2:20 pm

Ha ha no... I think we need to re-think a way to get people intrested in elections because:

a.)We seem to forget them
b.) Only a few people want to run every election. Usually not even enough to require a vote, they usually win by default.

I think we should reduce the numbers of positions, two chancellors and one census taker. For our current population that will be just fine. We can re-visit it if we ever grow to large for those numbers to manage.

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Isis Rakael

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PostSubject: Re: Government Reform?   Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:30 pm

More people would be willing to run if the Chancellor position actually had a purpose... eliminate it all together.

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New Numair

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PostSubject: Re: Government Reform?   Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:44 pm

I think the Chancellor should stay BUT, we should make the Chancellor the head of government where the person who holds the position of Chancellor appoints Secretaries of different cabinet offices (ex. Secretary of Defense).

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Holy Edesu SocialistState
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PostSubject: Re: Government Reform?   Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:23 pm

New Numair wrote:
I think the Chancellor should stay BUT, we should make the Chancellor the head of government where the person who holds the position of Chancellor appoints Secretaries of different cabinet offices (ex. Secretary of Defense).
What would the secretaries do?

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Rasvidi
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PostSubject: Re: Government Reform?   Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:39 am

I agree that the Chancellors need to have a purpose. Something I proposed a while ago but people had issue with, is that the only people allowed admin access on the forums would be Chancellors and the Founder. The Founder would be in charge of changing admin permissions during an election, with perhaps a "Steward" position to do it instead if the Founder is MIA or something.

I think that makes more sense. It was poo-poo'd last time I suggested it, though, which is fine because I do have alot of impractical and unreasonable ideas and I very rarely can tell these apart from the good ideas. Frequently to my detriment.

EDIT: Also, 500th post! Woohoo!

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Gracealona
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PostSubject: Re: Government Reform?   Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:38 am

Well my issue is this. I don't just want to create positions of power so that people will run for them, and that's what I feel like we're suggesting. If we do that people are going to start running for the wrong reasons.

Here's my responses to various peoples ideas:

Isis: This is kind of like what I said above. Also we would have to re-write/re-form Tiberiam's entire government and constitution.

New Numair: Two things on this idea, one has already been brought up. First, all these secretaries seem to be pointless and basically just give the chancellor something to do, it doesn't really give them any new powers. Basically all it does is gives a chancellor power to appoint more people with no power or purpose. Second we have to remember what a small region we are, we can't just keep creating new positions in our government. We only have 5 right now (6 if you count SoC) and we can't even manage to generate enough interest in them to fill them. Creating more positions of no power isn't the solution.

Rasvidi: I like where your heads at on this one Ras, here's my objection though. Remember that whole thing where you suggested that the SoC be an elected position? Our issue with it was that SoCs would change often and could be corrupted, inexperienced, just an overall poor SoC, or tweak the rules/make rulings in RP in their or their allies favor. This is kind of a similar thing, admins get total access to the forums and if they wanted to could totally sabotage the entire thing. Now don't think I'm saying that that would happen if anyone besides the current admins were in charge. However I've learned to accommodate for every possibility you can think of. I disagree with admins being elected for the same reason that I disagree with the SoC being elected



Now let's not all forget the one major power that the chancellors do currently have, they do get to select a new SoC when he/she steps down or becomes corrupt. What if we start getting them involved more in disagreements in the region? What I mean is something like this:

Let's say hypothetically that an SoC makes a decision on an RP. Now if one of the RPers dissagrees with the SoC's decision they can appeal to the chancellors for a second opinion. The chancellors would then here both sides of the story and all that and make a decision on whether the SoCs decision stands or is cancelled.

Now of course this is only one example. Obviously we don't want to be constantly having nations second guessing the SoC so I think that the chancellors should just be kind of be moderators in disputes that aren't IC RPs except in certain situations. The RP rulings would be left to the SoC (Unless, say for example, 3 nations challenged it? A certain number we can decide later) The chancellors would in turn be in charge of every other dispute in the region. A good example would be that whole OOC business with Hijjma or the dispute over Baut claiming KIs land. They could also be in charge of judging whether or not an SoC is corrupt or if a nation should be ejected for poor behavior.

I think you guys get the idea, make them the judges of every problem outside of RP.

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Rasvidi
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PostSubject: Re: Government Reform?   Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:25 am

Grace I agree with that but I still think the adminship should be limited to the Chancellors. Yes, some people will run for the wrong reasons, but I doubt they'd get elected if they are blatantly a bad fit (remember, these people still need to convince people to vote for them). Besides, it will make our regional politics that much more interesting and engaging. One reason for the apathy is that our politics are boring as dirt.

Following what Grace has said, I think we should also give more purpose to moderators. I think they should behave almost as law enforcement, and will enforce judgements made by the SoC and the Chancellors. They could also be in charge of enforcing existing legislation, so that this burden is taken away from the administration.

Also I think anyone should be able to dispute a ruling from the SoC, just to keep in line with IRL judiciaries and keep with the idea of the judiciary ruling the region.

But seriously, I really think the admins should be limited to the Chancellors/Founder/Steward. A backup of the site could be kept by the founder/steward or anyone else interested in doing so (I would certainly do so) just in case it really is messed up by a bad apple getting elected. That way any damage isn't permanent and can easily be reversed. Hell, I think there is an even a function in the admin panel to create and save a backup to your comp.

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Oscalantine

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PostSubject: Re: Government Reform?   Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:57 am

Huh... I think that would be great for the SoC. That would make my decisions weigh less, so I don't have to be so stressed out about every decision I make =D

if I may also suggest... why not make it so that Chancellors' duty to select and get approval of a new law for Tiberiam region? There are always a need to change something in the region, and if the three Chancellors' job was to suggest at least one law (one together... not one each) and try to pass that law into act, things will get a bit more interesting for Chancellors. So far, I have been having a hard time guessing at just what chancellors do besides having a cool title. Maybe that's the reason why there has been lack of chancellorships.

I would also go further on to say that in order to be a SoC, you have to run for Chancellorship at least once. Since Chancellors have to be active around the forums by default in order to be elected, and that they will now have a voice to question SoC's authority, it would be a great must step for SoC. I'm not saying that SoC is higher than Chancellor, but it would be good to have SoC candidates to be both loved by everyone, have some sort of connection around the forum, and have some kind of experience with the RP prior to becoming a SoC. Of course, there should be more restrictions like needing to be part of the RP and the likes. But I think having Chancellor's position having more authority and benefits will certain appeal to the overall office's popularity... which spells out more interesting election.

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PostSubject: Re: Government Reform?   Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:40 am

SoC is being picked by chancellors
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Oscalantine

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PostSubject: Re: Government Reform?   Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:44 am

That's true. However, I still say that SoC, if it was to become an official position with term limits and election process, the crap needs to be made sure that is a professional political job... I don't want this office being ruled by someone who doesn't know how to RP... not that I am any good at it, of course =D

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PostSubject: Re: Government Reform?   Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:56 pm

Gracealona wrote:
Ha ha no... I think we need to re-think a way to get people intrested in elections because:

a.)We seem to forget them
b.) Only a few people want to run every election. Usually not even enough to require a vote, they usually win by default.

I think we should reduce the numbers of positions, two chancellors and one census taker. For our current population that will be just fine. We can re-visit it if we ever grow to large for those numbers to manage.

First off, I decided to establish my candidacy for a third term, when ever the next election is...

And I think two chancellors is a better idea, and if there's policy gridlock because we disagree on voting on an issue the we can have the Founder (you) break the tie.
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Isis Rakael

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PostSubject: Re: Government Reform?   Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:43 pm

KingIsaac wrote:
SoC is being picked by chancellors

Since when? Grace picked the last two, and he wasn't Chancellor.

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PostSubject: Re: Government Reform?   Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:21 pm

Actually, he picked the last two while he was chancellor.
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Isis Rakael

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PostSubject: Re: Government Reform?   Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:51 pm

He wasn't Chancellor when I left, at which point Oscal was appointed. In any event, I maintain my previous statement of "Useless position. Eliminate it."

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PostSubject: Re: Government Reform?   Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:05 pm

Oscalantine was appointed as SoC on November 16th, 2010. Grace left office once the new elections started, which was on November 27th, 2010.

Does it matter if he was a chancellor then? Not really.
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PostSubject: Government Reform?   Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:20 pm

I picked Oscal when I was a chancellor yes. I don't remember who the second chancellor was at that time (either Romulan or EEE perhaps, I can't recall). However the second chancellor was MIA at that point so I made the decision on my own.

And to clear up how the chancellors selecting works. As of now the SoC is a "for life" position and is only replaced when the current one steps down or goes MIA. At that point (and only then) do the chancellors select a new SoC.

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PostSubject: Re: Government Reform?   Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:39 pm

Alright, there's all the posts we've made on this so far. Now here's Lightscribe's post from the RMB:

Lightscribe wrote:

Yes, i agree. Even as the founder, something must be changed. However, i see a re-occuring problem. It not that the Regional Government dosent work, it is just that no one wants to use it. The soverignity of each and everyone of us is what makes the government useless. We might as well not have a government as we deal with our problems our own way, internationally and domestically.

We really could of used this government for sooo many things. Think of the Chancellors as a three-brained judge to all laws passed and for all international, economical, political, and social opinions to be created. That is exactly what it is. The reason of its three brains is two make sure that we are making the right choices. For example, if a law was passed by the plaurltoracy of the senate, one vote is all it takes, to outlaw Gracealonia trade from all of Tiberiam, Gracealonia can bring a lawsuit to the regional chancellors to have an 'order' be called against the writer of the bill. That would be three heads of all consent to decide weither the bill should be in place or not.

Really, i am surprised that none of you has tried to corrupt the system to your advantage. The regional government is very powerful. Oscalitine could of made it law, or try, to raise revenue by issuing 20% extra fee on all of his products traded internationally. This would of given us a sore ass of paying 20% extra on all of the products that we import from Oscaltine. Or Rasvidi could of mandated a bill that states that every new military advancement should be tested only in Rasvidi military labs, this way Rasvidi could get a hold of all new military technology and become even mighter.

Okay, so here is where the chancellors have their power. Say the bills pass, due to no one paying attention to them, and they need one vote with a weeks notice. Oscaltine now has a free 20% pay raise on every trade and Rasvidi makes it clear that Gracealonia new Secret stealth weapons are comprimised as they have to go to Rasvidi tech labs for study and development. And say my economy was really bad. I would bring an complaint to the chancellors for an 'Order' to be called to repeal the bill. the order will be 3 days from the announcing complaint. The trail begins; cases are heard. After, the chancellors diliberate if the bill was good or not. they must all consent to be made sure that it was fair. THen the chancellors would come with an opinion stating if the bill was repealed or not. Say the bill is, all of tiberiam dose not pay an extra 20%; if it dosent, then we all pay the extra 20% percent.

It is a powerful government, but you guys have not used it yet to your advantage. Hell, Isis could of been king by now, haha. But seriously, use your minds for this government. it is a very good system if used properly. Moreover, it could create world peace and make war illegal. Use your brains, and not your soverignity.


We need to decide what (if anything) to do so continue the discussion...

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Holy Edesu SocialistState
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PostSubject: Re: Government Reform?   Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:07 pm

Suggestion A- Eliminate the chancellorships. They are rather pointless.

Suggestion B- I want to run for chancellor. The hypocrisy is fun.

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